(Nakahara) Hello, everyone. I’m Jun Nakahara from the University of Tokyo. For today’s session of “Interactive Teaching,” we would like to have a discussion with Dr. Yuhei Yamauchi. Thank you very much for coming. (Yamauchi) It’s my pleasure. (Nakahara) Dr. Yamauchi, your research field is related to learning in the Digital Age, in settings where information technology is highly developed. (Yamauchi) Yes. (Nakahara) Well, actually, “this” program is a MOOC, isn’t it? (Yamauchi) Yes, it is a MOOC, the program everyone is currently watching online. (Nakahara) It might be confusing to explain what a MOOC is to people who are watching this on a MOOC, but when did digital media or learning media such as MOOCs develop? (Yamauchi) While “gacco” started in April, 2014, about two years earlier, in the fall of 2011, professors of Stanford University started an experiment to see what would happen if they opened their courses to the public on the internet. (Nakahara) It was an experiment? (Yamauchi) Yes. The course was on Artificial Intelligence, and 160,000 people signed up from all over the world. Though it was a Stanford University course, no Stanford student came in the top 400. (Nakahara) Wow. (Yamauchi) Those top 400, I mean, those who achieved better grades than Stanford students, were the people from around the globe who gathered online. It was discovered that, by using online settings, education could cross borders. That’s why major MOOCs, such as Coursera and Udacity, were launched in the spring of 2012. It’s all very recent, in that sense. (Nakahara) Wow. It was made by professors? (Yamauchi) Yes, professors. (Nakahara) Did they quit their jobs? (Yamauchi) They gave up their tenure posts. (Nakahara) Wow. (Yamauchi) They said they had a social mission. So many people around the world long for academic knowledge. What was very impressive when I joined the Coursera Partners Conference was that they all called it a “mission". (Nakahara) I see. (Yamauchi) They have a religious backbone, sort of a sense of mission. University is of course a place for those who attend it, and that is important, but it is also a place to be considered a part of society. If there is someone in society who wants something from university, then university knowledge must be shared with everyone. I think this way of thinking is the very principle of MOOCs. (Nakahara) I see. I think there had already been trials to open up a course to the public on the internet before then. How did they differ from MOOCs? (Yamauchi) At the beginning of the 2000s, MIT started what was called OpenCourseWare. The idea was to make things such as lecture videos, syllabuses, and examinations open to the public online. It is now more than 10 years since its launch, and many universities, including the University of Tokyo, are also working on similar projects. However, what is made open to the public is limited to course materials, and not the courses proper, which are the essence of education as a service. (Nakahara) I see. (Yamauchi) On the contrary, with MOOCs, you can have a discussion in a forum, receive grades through examinations, and earn a certificate once you complete the course. Educational services close to real courses have been opened up to the public online, free of charge. That is the critical difference. (Nakahara) Whether opening materials or opening educational services… (Yamauchi) Exactly. (Nakahara) And whether you can earn a certificate or not might be quite a point. (Yamauchi) Yes, it really is. (Nakahara) Really? (Yamauchi) There is an interesting episode related to that. When the instructors at Stanford University launched MOOC as a venture business, the University objected. I think the University probably regarded issuing a certificate as their job, not the job of instructors or corporations. (Nakahara) That’s interesting. I’m not sure whether it started before or after MOOC, but there is a term “Hanten Jugyō". Where does this term come from? (Yamauchi) “Hanten Jugyō” is the translation of Flipped Classroom or Flipped Teaching. Generally, when you think of a class, you have an image of a teacher standing in front of the classroom, writing basic knowledge on a blackboard and explaining it, and students eagerly taking notes. Students acquire basic knowledge within the class time, and then work on advanced questions for their homework. I think this is what a traditional class looks like. However, as I mentioned, especially since the mid-2000s, supported by the appearance of tablets in 2010, online learning has grown. With e-learning, it has become easy for everyone to learn beforehand what is to be taught in the lecture. Before, quite a lot of time was spent acquiring basic knowledge in the classroom, but now students can work on it online at home. Once they had to work alone on difficult, advanced questions as their homework, but when dealing with such questions, students can learn better and more deeply through mutual learning or with the teacher supporting them, so that deeper learning should take place in the classroom. In this way, the role of classroom and home are flipped, so that’s why it is called Flipped Classroom. (Nakahara) I see. So, you mean, things related to knowledge transmission should be done alone at home and with the extra time you save on that, you can let the students work on more valuable issues, interactive activities, or difficult questions? (Yamauchi) Basically, students will be able to work on more advanced issues through, exactly, Interactive Teaching. (Nakahara) I see. I think I have a rough grasp of the present situation. MOOCs came out and are now used in the style of Flipped Classroom, enabling students to work on more valuable, interactive activities, in face-to-face settings. Under such circumstances, what will be the role of university, or what will universities be like in the future? As a faculty member, I am anxious about that. (Yamauchi) With the prevalence of online learning, I think university will be a place that offers a sort of hybrid service, where what you can do online shall be done online, and what will be most effective in face-to-face settings shall be done face-to-face. There must be many types of combinations. Things related to knowledge acquisition can be covered, to a certain extent, with online learning. Face-to-face settings costs a great deal. You need to maintain the campus and post staff there for everyone to gather. So, intensive activities and things that cannot be done other than in face-to-face settings, such as learning at a profound level, adding a new value to something, and acquiring imagination, should take place in such expensive setting. The purpose of using face-to-face learning will probably shift to fostering the higher-order skills required by society. However, knowledge is still necessary. It doesn’t mean that students won’t need to acquire knowledge anymore, just that it will be done online instead. In this way, I think the service will become hybrid. (Nakahara) When you say university, there are a variety of universities. They vary in levels of knowledge. But how about universities with a broad range of research fields, such as ours? What kind of place will they become? Will they be a place to focus further on academic quests and research? (Yamauchi) Yes, I think so. However, when you say quests and research, these used to refer to completely separate fields. But, from now on, they will be used in a broader sense. For example, the curriculum will gradually become flexible, where students might be able to earn a certain amount of credits with additional online programs or learning-through-experience programs. I think universities will have to be accountable for the kind of human resources they can foster in four years. In the upcoming age, what matters will be not what universities teach, but what kind of people grow up there. (Nakahara) So, you mean what matters will be the outcome? (Yamauchi) Exactly. Evaluation of achievement or outcome evaluation, so to speak. I think a greater emphasis will be placed on the outcome. (Nakahara) Whichever resource you use or whichever material you put together, the question will be what kind of human resources are developed in the end. That will be a tough age. (Yamauchi) Well, it will be tough, but also an enjoyable age, I think. It may depend on each person, whether he or she can enjoy it. (Nakahara) I see. Under such circumstances, what will be the role of faculty members, including instructors-to-be, and less experienced instructors like me… (Yamauchi) No, you aren’t. (Nakahara) How will their role change? (Yamauchi) I think the very important feature of faculty members is their expertise. The people taking this program must have various kinds of expertise, and I think they should absolutely take care of that expertise. Until now, having expertise and being able to explain your expertise appropriately meant that you could teach something. However, when it comes to Interactive Teaching, in addition to knowledge of your own field, you need another kind of expertise so that you can support and grasp interactive learning and lead the students to achieve an outcome. So, the expertise required has a dual meaning. I think this will become very important not only for faculty members, but also for all teachers. (Nakahara) So, you first need to have expertise of your own field for learners and students to get interested in. What you then need to do is help them make a change through various kinds of interaction. Is that right? (Yamauchi) Yes. (Nakahara) And the matter is what kind of human resources are developed as an outcome. (Yamauchi) Yes. (Nakahara) It’s easy to say in words, but I think it’s actually quite a tough thing to do. (Yamauchi) It is. Expertise in Interactive Teaching is probably something required of teachers at elementary school, but I think instructors teaching at university will also be required to have such expertise at the same level as elementary school teachers. (Nakahara) Wow. We need another 30 years for this program to accomplish that goal, without profit! (Yamauchi) Yes. (Nakahara) OK. My last question is something I ask all the guests who come to this talk session. Many different kinds of people are watching this online. Dr. Yamauchi, could you give a message to them from your field or your point of view? (Yamauchi) When it comes to supporting students interactively and guaranteeing successful outcomes, as I mentioned before, what I think is most important is to grasp the learners’ state. Grasp the learners’ present situation and consider what kind of measures would bring about what kind of changes in the learners. By closely observing the learners and making decisions, you can take appropriate measures. And I think it is important not only to do that in the short term, but also accumulate it in the longer term, such as over three or four years. This may sound extremely tough, but in fact, it is quite enjoyable. (Nakahara) I see. (Yamauchi) This is precisely the process of fostering something, so you can directly observe the change, which is the pleasure of Interactive Teaching. It is, of course, tough, but rather than seeing that as a burden, you can enjoy Interactive Teaching in that way. I think this is quite an important point. Once you can take it as enjoyable, it won’t cause you so much suffering. I would like you, who are watching this program online, to give it a try and realize its pleasure. (Nakahara) I see. In order to teach someone in an interactive way, you need to take the next steps while observing his or her change. (Yamauchi) Exactly. (Nakahara) And it would be better if you could find pleasure in that process. I’m afraid we’re running out of time. Thank you very much. (Yamauchi) Thank you.
